A new allegation has been brought forward. We are currently looking into allegations made against a member/associate of the O9A nexion Falcifer’s Watch that involves disturbing behaviour towards children.
Wtf? I think I saw this on X. I don’t think it’s Cameron cus he seems against it (but he has been caught lying many times) so that leaves Nullvox or that guy who makes their art, ‘V.L’ something.
Man that whole nexion is a mess lol, I think it’s safe to say anyone connected to them should be avoided like the plague! It’s not worth maybr funding a pedo or fed nexion.
Unless your comments are in violation of Substack's ToS we WILL NOT be deleting them.
Though I personally request that your comments be relegated to thoughtful criticisms for the preservation of our desire towards professionalism, I understand that debate sometimes requires an artistic flair to really drive home the rhetorical effect.
We should systemise this discussion to keep it on track. Maya, would you care to list all of the reasons you believe are behind Cameron’s deleting of comments? Then we can assess how logical and probable they are.
1. He deleted them cus Ash and Reginald said things he can’t respond to without proving their points and damaging his bizzo - like how Cameron can call himself ONA when the truth has come out that you have to be British or at minumum be living there to be ONA as Ash said…or how he’s shown us plenty of images of altar shots but not one of his nexion when there’s been other nexions that have done it…or the history of lying about being a member of the Black Order so he can trick people into thinking he’s qualified enough for them to spend money on.
2. He deleted them cus he’s insecure and can’t take having negative attention on him. You noticed how he kept Theo’s comment on the article after deleting the others? He disagreed with Cameron but also called it a good article. That’s positive attention so he didn’t delete it.
3. Like Kent said - maybe he just didn’t want the comments distracting people from the writing. But that’s the weakest possibility because the more comments you have the more highlighted on the stack your article becomes and more people see it. That’s good for bizzo and will make him more money down the line.
I think 1 and 2 are most logical. What about you guys?
I’d say 1 and 2. Maya already explained 1 well but for 2 he proved he was insecure when he went on that rant about Wrymwud after the Black Order exposed his bullshitting about being a member. Any other person would have stopped what they were doing or made a public apology.
I can confirm that Cameron recently and personally apologised to NSK for his behaviour during the whole imposter Black Order fiasco, and for falsely accusing NSK of not being a legitimate inheritor of The Black Order of Pan-Europa lineage.
That is hardly an action of a person that is insecure.
This seems like a foolish argument based on the fact the there are no "members" nor "leaders" nor "rules", for that matter. I refer to myself as "Order of Nine Angles" frequently, because that is philosophy I have adopted, as well as the path I have trod. I did not receive membership from a handler. I simply looked at my life with as much brutal self disclosure as I could then went out accomplished the goals I set as per my interpretation of the MSs. This is what makes me Order of Nine Angles and I owe no further explanation than that. What we "are" is held in others eyes, more than what we think of ourselves. However, I don't really care who calls themselves anything, as someone else's opinion of themselves has absolutely nothing to do with me or my existence. If we all were to say, meet at an ONAicon being held at the Civic Center in San Diego, you can be sure many duels would be held over who says they are this or that. Until that glorious convention day, our meetings are held here, in cyberspace. If all of you lived in the contiguous United States, I would welcome these online debates as we could end them with good roe in person to settle this up. As it stands, he who is wittiest is the victor. This typically means whoever is the greatest smartass wins. That is a prize I do not seek for myself in any way.
The concept of no members, leaders or rules is based on the Authority of Individual Judgement, which was exposed as a significant part of the “meme-jacking” of the ONA (qv. Darganfod); ergo, belonging to Omega Nine Alpha not the Order of Nine Angles.
I believe the reason for why they care about whom calls themselves what is because we have had ten plus years of deception and perfidy from Sutter and Chloe. We also have to factor in how many people have been entrapped because of those shenanigans. Thus, from my personal perspective, people should be calling out potential charlatans — in a civilised and sensible manner — to ensure it doesn’t happen again. This is why Nine Neighbours constructed detection protocols for imposters, that were made clear at the end of the “Lest You Forget” article.
It seems so foolish to go to federal prison for making some type of online racial or active shooter type threats, as Cameron has. I've been told there is a possibility that he's not even the "Cameron Wilder" that he claims to be. Even if he is, his federal probation status mixed with a short sentence sounds suspiciously like one who is working with federal government. I would say there is sufficient evidence for me to judge him as someone I want nothing to do with.
“His federal probation status mixed with a short sentence sounds suspiciously like one who is working with federal government.”
That is an interesting point; one I can’t dispute at this current point in time. However, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t other circumstances that could explain that.
Oh shit! There might be something to the fed allegation. I uploaded some pics that paint a very troubling picture at this link - https://filebin.net/9egxb00gtx0xu7s9
Putting this and the helping that documentary dude together and why they wanted to expose the OG… fuck, I really don’t like it. I feel like we’ve been here before and it always leads back to the same place.
There is a GoFundMe, started by Cameron and a fella that calls himself "Guru", that is seeking funds for a mission to Shropshire to find the real ONA OG and expose them or some such nonsense. I wonder how that mission is going for him.
I do say the old line of no leaders with my tongue pressed firmly within my cheek. I obviously know the reality of this is ridiculous. Being a smartass is actually a favored past time of mine, no matter what I may claim publicly. The real issue always comes down to a seed bearing its fruit. The government sees the fruits they wish to see even if the branch is bare. Separation from dross is vital to ones freedom as well as happiness in life.
I grew up in and around anarchistic, counterculture communities like the Rainbow Family, Grateful Dead Family, and HA. Elihom City is just down the road, and while it was claimed that these groups had no leaders, they actually did. We had councils, bylaws, standards, code words, and a unique language that only family members understood. The reason for this was to protect ourselves against being labeled a criminal organization, which would leave us vulnerable to RICO charges. For example, Sunny always denied being the leader of HA, but after he was charged with RICO, he ended up spending 8 years in prison for a bombing he didn't commit. This example shows why the idea of stating there is no leadership felt right to us in order to protect ourselves and others who actually maybe in leadership
The moment I asked him about why he was commenting on an O9A Substack despite his forum Become A Living God having a zero tolerance policy on O9A association, the comments were deleted. I was not rude, nor did I make accusations without providing evidence, so this was a strange thing to happen. The two explanations I can think of are: (1) E.A.Koetting personally told Falcifer’s Watch to remove the comments because he had been caught in a lie; or (2) someone in Falcifer’s Watch was posing as E.A. Koetting and didn’t want a potential law suit from E.A. Koetting for defamation and identity fraud.
I hope it is not the second one, but seeing as E.A. is terrified of his forum being associated with O9A and bans anyone from talking about it, the explanation is pretty clear. I am still unsure why anyone would want support from E.A. Koetting, whether real or fake, because quite frankly he’s a bit of a bollocks, but it is what it is.
I thought it very suspicious that Koetting would comment openly with anyone who has even the slightest interest or assumed association with O9A, especially with Cameron, who went straight from federal prison to blasting O9A like a nuclear reactor explosion - he's beyond glowing. So yeah, I too definitely call bullshit; just another attempt to call attention to himself - why is it to make sales or something more convert?
All of this discussion about the character of Mr. Wilder is certainly interesting to read, and indeed it may all be valid. I have to point out one thing though which is to his credit, at least he's never made the false claim of being OG.
It seems there was a period of time in which certain characters (anonymously) would seek out creating the impression of being OG. Some even out right claiming to be. This type of disingenuinty, though certainly sinister by character isn't useful in any fashion. The reality is that, there are no more OG's online and it's highly likely that they have not been present since '98.
So all of this, whether you want to accept it or not, has been a colossal mindfucking and everyone who has been interested or participatory in it has been played. Like a fiddle.
These days, anyone with a smidgeon of common sense wouldn't want to be publicly associated with it any longer. If for no other reason than it is supposed to be a clandestine thing.
Following the 7FW is one thing, and making the claim of membership an entirely different one.
But he did claim to be OG lineage through saying he was a member of The Black Order on his marketplace when he wasn’t. :)
Tbh, he has a traceable and verified history of pretending to be things he isn’t. Now we find out from Bent Oak that he doxxed them and helped someone in exposing the locations of the OG.
Even as an American I know the UK government would crucify them and their families if they were exposed. It’s naivety or a deliberate attempt to harm the OG. Both of those things make him an enemy of the sinister tradition!
This kind of petty and discourse over the Orders lineage, and the titles one can or can not hold seem highly unproductive and unprofessional, and overall not really all that important when we as practitioners are faced with much larger and pressing issues. That being said there is some validity to what Ash said, though I don’t think it is particularly important.
While I have not spoken to Cameron personally, I can make a fair estaminet from his activity online, and speaking with those who have had contact with him, that he seems like a good and intelligent guy, though I won’t make any concrete judgment’s because I don’t know the full extent of who he is or what he has done. When it comes to the American O9A in the modern day there aren’t many who seem to be genuine and devoted to actual praxis, more so just theatrics and larp; however Cameron seems to be someone who is legitimately caring for the tradition and it’s way, he is by far one of the more and outspoken practitioners in America, though that’s not me equating outspokenness with intelligence. Most other American practitioners who publish works to the public and hold a social media presence, both those in the past and those currently, seem to be very idiotic and lacking in any real understanding or practical feats of Satanism (though I’d attribute that to the rot that the ToB and AWD caused in American Traditional Satanism.)
I will say, things like this are why I personally rarely use the ONA/O9A to describe myself in relation to the Sevenfold way. I feel that as the Tradition evolves it may be more beneficial for we as adherents to move away from the terms and monikers of the past that, In some aspects seem to only weigh us down. I feel there is a lot of obsession over the old guard of the Order by, for lack of a better word, more orthodox practitioners that we would do good in snuffing out.
It may seem like petty chat but as NN pointed out in their articles this kind of ‘petty’ chat must be had to stop people being exploited by charlatans that 9/10 have been connected to FBI psyops involving the nasty bizzo of grooming kids - Sutter, Chloe, Jall and Project Polaris
I get your point mate but one of the downsides of the sinister echo chamber is that it’s become a taboo to call out shitty behavior. It’s always swept under the rug by people saying ‘this bickering over who is what is pointless what matters is the work’. Do you know how fucked up that is? The sinister tradition is supposed to have fucking honor and integrity among its own community but instead we get people like Cameron doing what he’s done and responding to all of this like a teenage girl from 2020 through indirect articles talking about envy and witch hunts (yes Cameron we’ve seen them): ‘you’re just a jealous h8er!’, no Cameron, we just demand fucking integrity and for you not to be a cunt by doing shit like pretending you’re Black Order or ONA - or doxxing people - or helping some glory seeking dick jockey expose the people who made the very tradition you claim to love and be loyal to.
So tell me again how petty and pointless these conversations are if they demand integrity and honor from people?
Also are you even aware of the fact that every single time an argument like ‘bickering over who is what and why is pointless’ or ‘no one has the authority to say who or who isn’t what’ you are parroting the Authority of Individual Judgement, a design of Sutter, Chloe and likely the FBI to rationalize sick shit like pedophilia and to desensitize, encourage and lastly entrap people. You are literally parroting an FBI psyop when you make that argument. How’s that for a bunch of individual and free thinking satanists?
You have a very good point there; and that is indeed one of the motivations behind why Nine Neighbours was formed and conducted the work that we did.
You are right, it shouldn’t be taboo to call out behaviour antithetical to the ethos and ethics of the sinister tradition. The Authority of Individual Judgement — as we explained in Darganfod — has been used by persons rotten and federally employed to gain easy access to the sinister tradition, pollute it, and exploit the people that are a part of it. The very fact that some nexions promote rape and child exploitation is a testament to how the Authority of Individual Judgement has permitted these people to escape culpability. Furthermore, this idea that there are no rules within the sinister tradition is nonsense. The MS that details the perquisites of character (or lack thereof) for choosing an Opfer explicitly states that violations such as rape and child abuse qualify you as rotten and suitable for culling (qv. Guide for Selecting Opfers). This means that the sinister tradition does have rules, that not everything is permitted, and as such it has honour and integrity.
This is an ONA teaching from which the sinister tradition began but was adopted and changed by O9A. I accept that O9A is separate from ONA and is therefore different, and that the classic Order of Nine Angles ideals are slowly and unfortunately eroding, yet to claim that nothing is ethically off limits in the sinister tradition is false — but all is permitted in the O9A due to the Authority of Individual Judgement.
With this in mind, I agree with Eihwaz77 in so far that the casting off of labels and new terminology may be required for O9A to fully divorce itself from ONA and its perceived ethical restrictions, but at that point it will no longer be the “sinister tradition”, it will be something else, as it will have evolved beyond the parameters — set by the [Old Guard] Order of Nine Angles — that were/are used to define the sinister tradition, for better or worse.
When I was talking about getting rid of old labels, i did not mean it in such a way that the O9A needs to fully divorce itself from the ONA by completely getting rid of it’s original symbolism and values. I was speaking more broadly about practitioners, wether they be in the United States Britain or somewhere else. The more and more time I spend dealing with the internal politics of Satanism and the infighting that goes on, wether for a just reason or not, I become evermore convinced that maybe it would be of benefit for us if we left behind both the ONA and the O9A, not completely abandoning them and their ideas per say, because of course we couldn’t, but more just looking in them as a part of the history of the tradition, and continuing to use their ideas in a way without all of this annoying bickering and lineages and the destruction the O9A has caused. The fact is that the Sinister Tradition is ever evolving and changing, one day the Order will be a distant memory to the initiates of the future and it will no longer be truly relevant to the Way, though I’m not saying it should be forgotten, just treated as a past point of the Tradition.
“I become evermore convinced that maybe it would be of benefit for us if we left behind both the ONA and the O9A, not completely abandoning them and their ideas per say, because of course we couldn’t, but more just looking in them as a part of the history of the tradition, and continuing to use their ideas in a way without all of this annoying bickering and lineages and the destruction the O9A has caused.”
I agree with you. However, as I mentioned previously, persons of the sinister tradition who believe there are no ethics within the tradition and act on that in such a way that qualifies them for culling could not possibly be considered traditional satanists or of the sinister tradition. Therefore, a new term would be needed for your post-ONA and O9A collective.
The other thing is that ONA isn’t part of O9A’s history and O9A isn’t part of ONA’s history because they are separate entities, but I understand what you are saying.
- Cameron pretended to be a member of the Black Order and attempted to spread lies about NSK. And Cameron apologized in private to NSK for lying and his other actions proving that he did all of it. That’s also supported by the Stolen Valour article on the old Black Order website that has a screenshot of Cameron lying
- Cameron doxxed Sat Nam and Corvus
- Cameron helped/is helping someone who wants to find and expose the OG which will ruin their lives (probs also cus he wants his name connected to the ONA name)
- Cameron has never posted a picture that proves he actually has a physical nexion
- Cameron claims he’s ONA when he can only be O9A (probs cus there’s no money in presenting as O9A).
This is all very fucking damning!
Btw has anyone looked at that Suicide Collective ebay store and that SP account he’s always shilling for? It’s got some Iron March and Seige Culture produced books on there. Cameron was with Atomwaffen Division who had access to Iron March before it was shut down so I’m thinking Suicide Collective and SP is actually Cameron shilling for himself
There’s no evidence to suggest that Suicide Collective is Cameron. Just because a person recommends a dining establishment doesn’t mean they own it or have shares in it.
Hi, just wanted to get on here and confirm that, while I am flattered, I am in fact not Cameron. Almost all of the Siege Culture-esque books I print have PDF versions available for free online. As for Librarian SP; he is an author, I am a book publisher, we are not the same person either, haha.
Do feel more than welcome to reach out for any books you may want printed, I do my best to cater to each individuals wants and needs! I also make flags, t-shirts, patches, and tarot cards! Thanks.
I never got a good vibe from him, and I was told he's not genuine, the so-called Cameron Wilder from a group I won't name at the start of his coming-out party. He attacked my husband, me, and others, and even attempted to doxx us. I'm unsure whether he's an agent or a poser trying to make money. It's laughable that he didn't know what datura was and was selling angel trumpet instead. He contacted a few people from England, and they're trying to raise funds to find the real ONA in Shropshire. All this leaves me with an uneasy feeling.
Wow. Just looked at that fundraising page. Why the fuck would someone who says he’s loyal to the sinister tradition want to help someone that’s trying to expose the people that founded it? Is Cameron an informant because that’s the only thought that makes sense right now. 😠
Why don't you ask them? I doubt they will (definitely not with Him helping to steer the ship.)
Meanwhile... Falcifer's Watch have blocked me from commenting on their articles. What a joke! Cameron didn't even try to argue against them, just deleted them and blocked me. I'm praying we can continue the discussion here though.
You made some good points but i think we should wait until T.C or Theo says it’s cool. I really don’t wanna have to deal with our comments getting deleted. I hate that shit.
No one is closing the path off. What this is about is that you can still follow the way just don’t call yourself ONA (refer to yourself as O9A if you have to) while doing it unless you actually are. 🙂
ONA (United Kingdom) is a separate organisation to O9A (United States). O9A is based on the co-opted and adapted teachings of the Order of Nine Angles but is not the Order of Nine Angles. The ONA returned to the dark in 1998 (qv. Terfyniad) and did not emerge again once Rigel Press and Brekkek had closed down. As Chloe stated in an email to a pseudonym Sutter was using at the time, O9A means “Omega Nine Alpha” not the Order of Nine Angles. You can read about this and more at the following link after downloading the pdf:
The links answer your question but I will briefly explain.
The ONA is not excluded to only UK citizens. Due to the extensive hands-on training required to be undertaken after studying Thelema and Golden Dawn gnosis and praxis, when the initiate is ready to begin training in the Star Game (qv. Noviciate Studies, circa 1970s), the initiate must be living in the United Kingdom so that regular or semi-regular face-to-face training sessions, studying and testing can occur. Thus, it does not forbid non-UK residents from being members but an American, for example, would have to move to the UK for a time that far exceeds the typical tourist visa.
One example of a non-UK citizen becoming a member of the ONA is Thorsten Moar, who moved from New Zealand to England in the late 1990s (qv. Discourses [ODF]).
The O9A is not restricted to just the United States (as you pointed out), it is international. There are no location requirements for being a “niner” because there is no authority, no master, no need to spend a great degree of time studying other alchemical systems or anything like that. Anyone can be regarded as a niner under the Authority of Individual Judgement ethos. As an example, notable niners from the UK are A.A.Morain, SKD etc.
The major difference is therefore:
Anyone can join and be referred to as a “member” of the O9A, but few people can join or be referred to as ONA; and those that actually are will never say they are because they practice the act and philosophy of shrencing (qv. Screnching). So I suppose it can be said that anyone who claims to be Order of Nine Angles and openly admits it, isn’t one of them.
All I have seen is words. It seems as if you guys are reading the MSs, and then giving little lectures of what you think of them. You have no true Gnosis of your own, just regurgitated, reiterated, echoed, and then parroted words.
Ok I will bite What are the sacred practices, transformative rituals, and divine principles that guide your spiritual journey? Which deities or Gods or to say higher powers do you revere, and what are your reasons for adhering to or deviating from these principles? Physical disciplines, mental processes, etc. Would you care to elaborate?
I assure I do not need schooled in what Formulates the left-hand path .The term revered holding something sacred or exalted. Revering something goes beyond simple liking or appreciation. It involves a profound recognition of its value and importance. Internal alchemy Microcosm is true Concept I would agree
Hermetic rituals what would they be?
And it sounds as if you a live healthy lifestyle.
Have you ever lived on the streets ?
Joined gang ?
traveled homeless
joined the military ?
Maybe even lived in a Anarchist communities?
lived out in the forest for a season?
Hike with 50 pounds ? completed a insight role ?, created your own Tarot?
Have you traversed all 21 Pathways ?
Created a sacred space temple for your Koven?
Do you have a irl Koven ?
I wonder what adversity you have put yourself through or life has put you through that you have gained insight you seem to speak of often?
Have you written MSs on alchemy or hermeticism in your own words?
A new allegation has been brought forward. We are currently looking into allegations made against a member/associate of the O9A nexion Falcifer’s Watch that involves disturbing behaviour towards children.
Wtf? I think I saw this on X. I don’t think it’s Cameron cus he seems against it (but he has been caught lying many times) so that leaves Nullvox or that guy who makes their art, ‘V.L’ something.
Man that whole nexion is a mess lol, I think it’s safe to say anyone connected to them should be avoided like the plague! It’s not worth maybr funding a pedo or fed nexion.
Unless your comments are in violation of Substack's ToS we WILL NOT be deleting them.
Though I personally request that your comments be relegated to thoughtful criticisms for the preservation of our desire towards professionalism, I understand that debate sometimes requires an artistic flair to really drive home the rhetorical effect.
So with all that said, please carry on.
That’s fair. I agree to your terms mate.
Why do you think Cameron deleted those comments instead of trying to counter the accusations though?
We should systemise this discussion to keep it on track. Maya, would you care to list all of the reasons you believe are behind Cameron’s deleting of comments? Then we can assess how logical and probable they are.
Good idea! Okay…
1. He deleted them cus Ash and Reginald said things he can’t respond to without proving their points and damaging his bizzo - like how Cameron can call himself ONA when the truth has come out that you have to be British or at minumum be living there to be ONA as Ash said…or how he’s shown us plenty of images of altar shots but not one of his nexion when there’s been other nexions that have done it…or the history of lying about being a member of the Black Order so he can trick people into thinking he’s qualified enough for them to spend money on.
2. He deleted them cus he’s insecure and can’t take having negative attention on him. You noticed how he kept Theo’s comment on the article after deleting the others? He disagreed with Cameron but also called it a good article. That’s positive attention so he didn’t delete it.
3. Like Kent said - maybe he just didn’t want the comments distracting people from the writing. But that’s the weakest possibility because the more comments you have the more highlighted on the stack your article becomes and more people see it. That’s good for bizzo and will make him more money down the line.
I think 1 and 2 are most logical. What about you guys?
I’d say 1 and 2. Maya already explained 1 well but for 2 he proved he was insecure when he went on that rant about Wrymwud after the Black Order exposed his bullshitting about being a member. Any other person would have stopped what they were doing or made a public apology.
I can confirm that Cameron recently and personally apologised to NSK for his behaviour during the whole imposter Black Order fiasco, and for falsely accusing NSK of not being a legitimate inheritor of The Black Order of Pan-Europa lineage.
That is hardly an action of a person that is insecure.
Honestly I couldn't say, but I could certainly speculate. I'm just not going to. What I know is that it's not a good look at all.
Your name seems familiar, Maya. Have we encountered one another before, per chance?
I don’t think so.
This seems like a foolish argument based on the fact the there are no "members" nor "leaders" nor "rules", for that matter. I refer to myself as "Order of Nine Angles" frequently, because that is philosophy I have adopted, as well as the path I have trod. I did not receive membership from a handler. I simply looked at my life with as much brutal self disclosure as I could then went out accomplished the goals I set as per my interpretation of the MSs. This is what makes me Order of Nine Angles and I owe no further explanation than that. What we "are" is held in others eyes, more than what we think of ourselves. However, I don't really care who calls themselves anything, as someone else's opinion of themselves has absolutely nothing to do with me or my existence. If we all were to say, meet at an ONAicon being held at the Civic Center in San Diego, you can be sure many duels would be held over who says they are this or that. Until that glorious convention day, our meetings are held here, in cyberspace. If all of you lived in the contiguous United States, I would welcome these online debates as we could end them with good roe in person to settle this up. As it stands, he who is wittiest is the victor. This typically means whoever is the greatest smartass wins. That is a prize I do not seek for myself in any way.
The concept of no members, leaders or rules is based on the Authority of Individual Judgement, which was exposed as a significant part of the “meme-jacking” of the ONA (qv. Darganfod); ergo, belonging to Omega Nine Alpha not the Order of Nine Angles.
I believe the reason for why they care about whom calls themselves what is because we have had ten plus years of deception and perfidy from Sutter and Chloe. We also have to factor in how many people have been entrapped because of those shenanigans. Thus, from my personal perspective, people should be calling out potential charlatans — in a civilised and sensible manner — to ensure it doesn’t happen again. This is why Nine Neighbours constructed detection protocols for imposters, that were made clear at the end of the “Lest You Forget” article.
It seems so foolish to go to federal prison for making some type of online racial or active shooter type threats, as Cameron has. I've been told there is a possibility that he's not even the "Cameron Wilder" that he claims to be. Even if he is, his federal probation status mixed with a short sentence sounds suspiciously like one who is working with federal government. I would say there is sufficient evidence for me to judge him as someone I want nothing to do with.
“His federal probation status mixed with a short sentence sounds suspiciously like one who is working with federal government.”
That is an interesting point; one I can’t dispute at this current point in time. However, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t other circumstances that could explain that.
Oh shit! There might be something to the fed allegation. I uploaded some pics that paint a very troubling picture at this link - https://filebin.net/9egxb00gtx0xu7s9
Putting this and the helping that documentary dude together and why they wanted to expose the OG… fuck, I really don’t like it. I feel like we’ve been here before and it always leads back to the same place.
There is a GoFundMe, started by Cameron and a fella that calls himself "Guru", that is seeking funds for a mission to Shropshire to find the real ONA OG and expose them or some such nonsense. I wonder how that mission is going for him.
C, this doesn't surprise me, guru is the guy from YouTube whom goes by the name guru 9.
I spoke briefly to sat nam concerning this issue
I do say the old line of no leaders with my tongue pressed firmly within my cheek. I obviously know the reality of this is ridiculous. Being a smartass is actually a favored past time of mine, no matter what I may claim publicly. The real issue always comes down to a seed bearing its fruit. The government sees the fruits they wish to see even if the branch is bare. Separation from dross is vital to ones freedom as well as happiness in life.
I grew up in and around anarchistic, counterculture communities like the Rainbow Family, Grateful Dead Family, and HA. Elihom City is just down the road, and while it was claimed that these groups had no leaders, they actually did. We had councils, bylaws, standards, code words, and a unique language that only family members understood. The reason for this was to protect ourselves against being labeled a criminal organization, which would leave us vulnerable to RICO charges. For example, Sunny always denied being the leader of HA, but after he was charged with RICO, he ended up spending 8 years in prison for a bombing he didn't commit. This example shows why the idea of stating there is no leadership felt right to us in order to protect ourselves and others who actually maybe in leadership
I unfortunately have to report some suspicious behaviour on the Falcifer’s Watch Substack. E.A. Koetting commented on this article: https://open.substack.com/pub/sinistertradition/p/witch-hunts-and-satanic-panic?r=5o8273&utm_medium=ios
I decided to ask E.A. Koetting a few questions. You can view the screenshots (and the file I sent to E.A. Koetting) here:
https://limewire.com/d/ABU63#HJ5cXru78B
The moment I asked him about why he was commenting on an O9A Substack despite his forum Become A Living God having a zero tolerance policy on O9A association, the comments were deleted. I was not rude, nor did I make accusations without providing evidence, so this was a strange thing to happen. The two explanations I can think of are: (1) E.A.Koetting personally told Falcifer’s Watch to remove the comments because he had been caught in a lie; or (2) someone in Falcifer’s Watch was posing as E.A. Koetting and didn’t want a potential law suit from E.A. Koetting for defamation and identity fraud.
I hope it is not the second one, but seeing as E.A. is terrified of his forum being associated with O9A and bans anyone from talking about it, the explanation is pretty clear. I am still unsure why anyone would want support from E.A. Koetting, whether real or fake, because quite frankly he’s a bit of a bollocks, but it is what it is.
I thought it very suspicious that Koetting would comment openly with anyone who has even the slightest interest or assumed association with O9A, especially with Cameron, who went straight from federal prison to blasting O9A like a nuclear reactor explosion - he's beyond glowing. So yeah, I too definitely call bullshit; just another attempt to call attention to himself - why is it to make sales or something more convert?
All of this discussion about the character of Mr. Wilder is certainly interesting to read, and indeed it may all be valid. I have to point out one thing though which is to his credit, at least he's never made the false claim of being OG.
It seems there was a period of time in which certain characters (anonymously) would seek out creating the impression of being OG. Some even out right claiming to be. This type of disingenuinty, though certainly sinister by character isn't useful in any fashion. The reality is that, there are no more OG's online and it's highly likely that they have not been present since '98.
So all of this, whether you want to accept it or not, has been a colossal mindfucking and everyone who has been interested or participatory in it has been played. Like a fiddle.
These days, anyone with a smidgeon of common sense wouldn't want to be publicly associated with it any longer. If for no other reason than it is supposed to be a clandestine thing.
Following the 7FW is one thing, and making the claim of membership an entirely different one.
But he did claim to be OG lineage through saying he was a member of The Black Order on his marketplace when he wasn’t. :)
Tbh, he has a traceable and verified history of pretending to be things he isn’t. Now we find out from Bent Oak that he doxxed them and helped someone in exposing the locations of the OG.
Even as an American I know the UK government would crucify them and their families if they were exposed. It’s naivety or a deliberate attempt to harm the OG. Both of those things make him an enemy of the sinister tradition!
Fair point. I stand corrected on that one.
This kind of petty and discourse over the Orders lineage, and the titles one can or can not hold seem highly unproductive and unprofessional, and overall not really all that important when we as practitioners are faced with much larger and pressing issues. That being said there is some validity to what Ash said, though I don’t think it is particularly important.
While I have not spoken to Cameron personally, I can make a fair estaminet from his activity online, and speaking with those who have had contact with him, that he seems like a good and intelligent guy, though I won’t make any concrete judgment’s because I don’t know the full extent of who he is or what he has done. When it comes to the American O9A in the modern day there aren’t many who seem to be genuine and devoted to actual praxis, more so just theatrics and larp; however Cameron seems to be someone who is legitimately caring for the tradition and it’s way, he is by far one of the more and outspoken practitioners in America, though that’s not me equating outspokenness with intelligence. Most other American practitioners who publish works to the public and hold a social media presence, both those in the past and those currently, seem to be very idiotic and lacking in any real understanding or practical feats of Satanism (though I’d attribute that to the rot that the ToB and AWD caused in American Traditional Satanism.)
I will say, things like this are why I personally rarely use the ONA/O9A to describe myself in relation to the Sevenfold way. I feel that as the Tradition evolves it may be more beneficial for we as adherents to move away from the terms and monikers of the past that, In some aspects seem to only weigh us down. I feel there is a lot of obsession over the old guard of the Order by, for lack of a better word, more orthodox practitioners that we would do good in snuffing out.
It may seem like petty chat but as NN pointed out in their articles this kind of ‘petty’ chat must be had to stop people being exploited by charlatans that 9/10 have been connected to FBI psyops involving the nasty bizzo of grooming kids - Sutter, Chloe, Jall and Project Polaris
I get your point mate but one of the downsides of the sinister echo chamber is that it’s become a taboo to call out shitty behavior. It’s always swept under the rug by people saying ‘this bickering over who is what is pointless what matters is the work’. Do you know how fucked up that is? The sinister tradition is supposed to have fucking honor and integrity among its own community but instead we get people like Cameron doing what he’s done and responding to all of this like a teenage girl from 2020 through indirect articles talking about envy and witch hunts (yes Cameron we’ve seen them): ‘you’re just a jealous h8er!’, no Cameron, we just demand fucking integrity and for you not to be a cunt by doing shit like pretending you’re Black Order or ONA - or doxxing people - or helping some glory seeking dick jockey expose the people who made the very tradition you claim to love and be loyal to.
So tell me again how petty and pointless these conversations are if they demand integrity and honor from people?
Also are you even aware of the fact that every single time an argument like ‘bickering over who is what and why is pointless’ or ‘no one has the authority to say who or who isn’t what’ you are parroting the Authority of Individual Judgement, a design of Sutter, Chloe and likely the FBI to rationalize sick shit like pedophilia and to desensitize, encourage and lastly entrap people. You are literally parroting an FBI psyop when you make that argument. How’s that for a bunch of individual and free thinking satanists?
You have a very good point there; and that is indeed one of the motivations behind why Nine Neighbours was formed and conducted the work that we did.
You are right, it shouldn’t be taboo to call out behaviour antithetical to the ethos and ethics of the sinister tradition. The Authority of Individual Judgement — as we explained in Darganfod — has been used by persons rotten and federally employed to gain easy access to the sinister tradition, pollute it, and exploit the people that are a part of it. The very fact that some nexions promote rape and child exploitation is a testament to how the Authority of Individual Judgement has permitted these people to escape culpability. Furthermore, this idea that there are no rules within the sinister tradition is nonsense. The MS that details the perquisites of character (or lack thereof) for choosing an Opfer explicitly states that violations such as rape and child abuse qualify you as rotten and suitable for culling (qv. Guide for Selecting Opfers). This means that the sinister tradition does have rules, that not everything is permitted, and as such it has honour and integrity.
This is an ONA teaching from which the sinister tradition began but was adopted and changed by O9A. I accept that O9A is separate from ONA and is therefore different, and that the classic Order of Nine Angles ideals are slowly and unfortunately eroding, yet to claim that nothing is ethically off limits in the sinister tradition is false — but all is permitted in the O9A due to the Authority of Individual Judgement.
With this in mind, I agree with Eihwaz77 in so far that the casting off of labels and new terminology may be required for O9A to fully divorce itself from ONA and its perceived ethical restrictions, but at that point it will no longer be the “sinister tradition”, it will be something else, as it will have evolved beyond the parameters — set by the [Old Guard] Order of Nine Angles — that were/are used to define the sinister tradition, for better or worse.
When I was talking about getting rid of old labels, i did not mean it in such a way that the O9A needs to fully divorce itself from the ONA by completely getting rid of it’s original symbolism and values. I was speaking more broadly about practitioners, wether they be in the United States Britain or somewhere else. The more and more time I spend dealing with the internal politics of Satanism and the infighting that goes on, wether for a just reason or not, I become evermore convinced that maybe it would be of benefit for us if we left behind both the ONA and the O9A, not completely abandoning them and their ideas per say, because of course we couldn’t, but more just looking in them as a part of the history of the tradition, and continuing to use their ideas in a way without all of this annoying bickering and lineages and the destruction the O9A has caused. The fact is that the Sinister Tradition is ever evolving and changing, one day the Order will be a distant memory to the initiates of the future and it will no longer be truly relevant to the Way, though I’m not saying it should be forgotten, just treated as a past point of the Tradition.
“I become evermore convinced that maybe it would be of benefit for us if we left behind both the ONA and the O9A, not completely abandoning them and their ideas per say, because of course we couldn’t, but more just looking in them as a part of the history of the tradition, and continuing to use their ideas in a way without all of this annoying bickering and lineages and the destruction the O9A has caused.”
I agree with you. However, as I mentioned previously, persons of the sinister tradition who believe there are no ethics within the tradition and act on that in such a way that qualifies them for culling could not possibly be considered traditional satanists or of the sinister tradition. Therefore, a new term would be needed for your post-ONA and O9A collective.
The other thing is that ONA isn’t part of O9A’s history and O9A isn’t part of ONA’s history because they are separate entities, but I understand what you are saying.
So for a recap.
- Cameron pretended to be a member of the Black Order and attempted to spread lies about NSK. And Cameron apologized in private to NSK for lying and his other actions proving that he did all of it. That’s also supported by the Stolen Valour article on the old Black Order website that has a screenshot of Cameron lying
- Cameron doxxed Sat Nam and Corvus
- Cameron helped/is helping someone who wants to find and expose the OG which will ruin their lives (probs also cus he wants his name connected to the ONA name)
- Cameron has never posted a picture that proves he actually has a physical nexion
- Cameron claims he’s ONA when he can only be O9A (probs cus there’s no money in presenting as O9A).
This is all very fucking damning!
Btw has anyone looked at that Suicide Collective ebay store and that SP account he’s always shilling for? It’s got some Iron March and Seige Culture produced books on there. Cameron was with Atomwaffen Division who had access to Iron March before it was shut down so I’m thinking Suicide Collective and SP is actually Cameron shilling for himself
There’s no evidence to suggest that Suicide Collective is Cameron. Just because a person recommends a dining establishment doesn’t mean they own it or have shares in it.
Hi, just wanted to get on here and confirm that, while I am flattered, I am in fact not Cameron. Almost all of the Siege Culture-esque books I print have PDF versions available for free online. As for Librarian SP; he is an author, I am a book publisher, we are not the same person either, haha.
Do feel more than welcome to reach out for any books you may want printed, I do my best to cater to each individuals wants and needs! I also make flags, t-shirts, patches, and tarot cards! Thanks.
- Luziver Beest, Suicidal Collective
Thank you for clearing that up.
I’m sooo sick of this shit. Just call it like it is. Cammy the tranny lover has been grifting from one group to the next.
It started with the Black Order
http://theblackorder.ca/
(just scroll down to the stolen valour article)
Now he’s doing it with ONA even though he’s too stupid to realize that you cant live anywhere but England if you’re like legit them. 🤦♀️
Hey again. Thanks for letting me know about his history of lying about being a member of Black Order — shocking.
I’m hoping House of Iconoclasts don’t delete comments on their posts like Falcifer’s Watch does. I’m guessing they won’t because they reported on it?
Their work with Dark Crier is solid. They dont play favorites I think but if by happenstance they do I’m going to screenshot everything dude :)
I never got a good vibe from him, and I was told he's not genuine, the so-called Cameron Wilder from a group I won't name at the start of his coming-out party. He attacked my husband, me, and others, and even attempted to doxx us. I'm unsure whether he's an agent or a poser trying to make money. It's laughable that he didn't know what datura was and was selling angel trumpet instead. He contacted a few people from England, and they're trying to raise funds to find the real ONA in Shropshire. All this leaves me with an uneasy feeling.
Wow. Just looked at that fundraising page. Why the fuck would someone who says he’s loyal to the sinister tradition want to help someone that’s trying to expose the people that founded it? Is Cameron an informant because that’s the only thought that makes sense right now. 😠
Why don't you ask them? I doubt they will (definitely not with Him helping to steer the ship.)
Meanwhile... Falcifer's Watch have blocked me from commenting on their articles. What a joke! Cameron didn't even try to argue against them, just deleted them and blocked me. I'm praying we can continue the discussion here though.
Hi Reginald
You made some good points but i think we should wait until T.C or Theo says it’s cool. I really don’t wanna have to deal with our comments getting deleted. I hate that shit.
Had to Google who these people are as I mostly hang around Buddhists and Satanists irl. Insane!
Are they a physical group?
No one is closing the path off. What this is about is that you can still follow the way just don’t call yourself ONA (refer to yourself as O9A if you have to) while doing it unless you actually are. 🙂
ONA (United Kingdom) is a separate organisation to O9A (United States). O9A is based on the co-opted and adapted teachings of the Order of Nine Angles but is not the Order of Nine Angles. The ONA returned to the dark in 1998 (qv. Terfyniad) and did not emerge again once Rigel Press and Brekkek had closed down. As Chloe stated in an email to a pseudonym Sutter was using at the time, O9A means “Omega Nine Alpha” not the Order of Nine Angles. You can read about this and more at the following link after downloading the pdf:
https://open.substack.com/pub/houseoficonoclasts/p/darganfod-chicanery-perfidy-and-misrepresentatio?r=5o8273&utm_medium=ios
You can also read what is essentially the summing-up of the entire investigation into the O9A here, if you prefer “cliff notes”:
https://open.substack.com/pub/houseoficonoclasts/p/lest-you-forget?r=5o8273&utm_medium=ios
The links answer your question but I will briefly explain.
The ONA is not excluded to only UK citizens. Due to the extensive hands-on training required to be undertaken after studying Thelema and Golden Dawn gnosis and praxis, when the initiate is ready to begin training in the Star Game (qv. Noviciate Studies, circa 1970s), the initiate must be living in the United Kingdom so that regular or semi-regular face-to-face training sessions, studying and testing can occur. Thus, it does not forbid non-UK residents from being members but an American, for example, would have to move to the UK for a time that far exceeds the typical tourist visa.
One example of a non-UK citizen becoming a member of the ONA is Thorsten Moar, who moved from New Zealand to England in the late 1990s (qv. Discourses [ODF]).
The O9A is not restricted to just the United States (as you pointed out), it is international. There are no location requirements for being a “niner” because there is no authority, no master, no need to spend a great degree of time studying other alchemical systems or anything like that. Anyone can be regarded as a niner under the Authority of Individual Judgement ethos. As an example, notable niners from the UK are A.A.Morain, SKD etc.
The major difference is therefore:
Anyone can join and be referred to as a “member” of the O9A, but few people can join or be referred to as ONA; and those that actually are will never say they are because they practice the act and philosophy of shrencing (qv. Screnching). So I suppose it can be said that anyone who claims to be Order of Nine Angles and openly admits it, isn’t one of them.
Read through the comments and learn
All I have seen is words. It seems as if you guys are reading the MSs, and then giving little lectures of what you think of them. You have no true Gnosis of your own, just regurgitated, reiterated, echoed, and then parroted words.
https://youtube.com/shorts/aoRz1ENhhdk?si=oPQmlqN0MlUrEYSE
Agios O Lucifer
Agia H Baphomet
Ok I will bite What are the sacred practices, transformative rituals, and divine principles that guide your spiritual journey? Which deities or Gods or to say higher powers do you revere, and what are your reasons for adhering to or deviating from these principles? Physical disciplines, mental processes, etc. Would you care to elaborate?
I assure I do not need schooled in what Formulates the left-hand path .The term revered holding something sacred or exalted. Revering something goes beyond simple liking or appreciation. It involves a profound recognition of its value and importance. Internal alchemy Microcosm is true Concept I would agree
Hermetic rituals what would they be?
And it sounds as if you a live healthy lifestyle.
Have you ever lived on the streets ?
Joined gang ?
traveled homeless
joined the military ?
Maybe even lived in a Anarchist communities?
lived out in the forest for a season?
Hike with 50 pounds ? completed a insight role ?, created your own Tarot?
Have you traversed all 21 Pathways ?
Created a sacred space temple for your Koven?
Do you have a irl Koven ?
I wonder what adversity you have put yourself through or life has put you through that you have gained insight you seem to speak of often?
Have you written MSs on alchemy or hermeticism in your own words?
Have you open Nexions? Acquired a tetrahedron.
Do you know what a tetrahedron is used for?
There no verification you have done anything except words just someone just typing online
“You can tell I tree by it’s fruit “
You confirmed?